Interview with Irene Turner - Tibetan Buddhist nun

When did you first get called to Tibetan Buddhism?

When I was a teenager growing up in Brazil, I loved reading and came across the books: ´Seven Years in Tibet´ and ´Magic and Mysteries in Tibet.´ I was fascinated by these books and wanted to learn more about Tibet and Tibetan Buddhism. 

Then when I was studying medicine at university, my grandmother died and I felt a strong calling to visit India. I dropped out of university and followed the calling. 

When I arrived in India, having travelled overland for six weeks in an old bus, I met a man who told me that I should visit Dharamshala. “There´s a nice chappy there that you should meet,” he said. I asked him who it was and he replied “His name is the Dalai Lama. He's a really special man.” I followed his guidance and found myself some days later in Dharamshala, the home of His Holiness the Dalai Lama and the Central Tibetan Administration. 

When I was there, I had the opportunity to study and meet the Tibetan people who were always happy, plus other western Buddhists monks and hippies in those days. I´d found the beginning of my new life with Tibetan Buddhism. 

In Tibetan Buddhism, they talk of manifestations. They say that when a being appears in your life and helps you, they are there to help you on your path. This man was that being for me and helped me change the direction of my entire life. 

When did you first consider ordaining as a nun?

In 2005, I was studying Buddhist philosophy in Italy where I met my teacher, Geshe Jampa Gyatso, and after one year studying with him, he surprised my by telling me that I should ordain. I never thought about it until then and it took me a while to realise this might actually be the right thing to do.   

Why did you eventually decide to ordain?

It was a process that I went through. I spoke a lot about it with my teacher who eventually said, “Go and tell your father that you´re ordaining and come back.” 

My father lived in Brazil (I´m Swiss-German but was born in Brazil), so I went to visit him and tell him that I was intending to ordain. When I told him, he replied, “If you come to this house with robes and a shaved head, I´ll disown you as my daughter.”  Then, although I thought this would be the end of the story, Geshe-la had other ideas and eventually I got ordained. Nowadays I see it was the best thing I could have done with my life! 

What happened next?

After I ordained, I really struggled for the first six months because I didn't like wearing the robes and I missed my long hair. There are 36 vows that we take when we ordain and one of them was to give up appearing as a lay person, which wasn´t so easy for me then.   

But I´m glad I didn't put if off because my teacher died one year after I ordained and it's very important to make a connection with the person that gives you your vows. My teacher was a very important person to me.

Are you fine now with your robes and short hair?

I have a nice teacher that is quite sensible and doesn´t object to me wearing normal clothes, although of course I wear the robes in Buddhist places or during teachings and ceremonies. In fact, ordaining was really a blessing because it gave me the privilege of studying and being close to my teacher. 

I have to admit that sometimes I forget that I´m a nun. But at the same time, something special happens when you get the vows.  It's like you receive a new energy that restrains your impulses so you can relax into your role and position as a nun. 

How did you meet your teacher?

I met him through a man that I was once in love with. When I met this man, we were both lay people. Then some time later, he ordained as a Buddhist monk. We remained friends and eventually he introduced me to both of my teachers. 

Do you think that many nuns and monks fall in love?

It can happen, yes. Sometimes the urges of love are stronger than the robes. When it happens, the monk or nun has to disrobe because when you ordain, one of the vows is that you leave behind intimacy with a partner. It can be a hard choice and it happens a lot more to younger people than us older nuns.

Do you think that by being a nun, you help the world in any way?  

People might think that monks and nuns are lazy. This is not true, because monks and nuns spend a lot of time developing their own minds, which leads to a more peaceful way of being. This self-development in itself can show others the way to peaceful lives. This, in addition to giving Buddhist teachings and guidance, is where I think nuns and monks are able to help the world. 

Do you have a personal mission as a nun?

As a nun, I made vows in order to develop my mind, which on a personal level, means to develop more patience, wisdom and kindness. My teacher always tells me that he knows when I´m irritated and says “Please contain yourself.” I would like to do that and be a better person! 

As a nun, how can you develop your mind?  

If I meditate it helps me. I also do morning and evening practices which include visualisations and reflections on the Four Noble Truths and so forth. When I do that, my mind calms and I´m able to be more peaceful and patient. I also find that simple things like mindfulness and watching my breath are very helpful. 

Do you think that there’s a difference in the living standards between monks and nuns?

What I know is that in Tibetan society, nuns used to be in second place. Back in Tibet, Nunneries were poor and the nuns even had to serve the monks. But with His Holiness the Dalai Lama as the head of state of Tibet, all that has now finished. He insisted that nuns had access to studies, prayer, mantras, pujas and equality. Nowadays, monks and nuns debate together. Some people even say that nuns are sharper than monks!

Do you live in a nunnery at this time? 

When you ordain, the general rule is that you should try and live in a monastery or nunnery so you can dedicate yourself to developing your life, studying, practicing and being in the dharma. For nuns this is difficult as there aren't many nunneries around. At this time, I live in my own house but it´s near a monastery so that I have access to the teachings.

Do you think that nuns and monks have difficult times living together in monasteries and nunneries?

The truth is, I think that nuns that ordain later in life have difficulty living together because we have been independent and are set in our ways, and find it difficult to adapt to living in a community. Living in a community presents its own challenges because, in the end, we are all humans living together. 

Have you ever experienced any prejudice for being a nun?

I've been a nun for 16 years, and these days, Buddhist sanga is better known and so is His Holiness the Dalai Lama. For that reason, most people do look at sanga with respect.

Do you think that you will be a nun for the rest of your life? 

My teacher once told me jokingly, “If you want to disrobe, you will first have to realise the Four Noble Truths.” So, I suppose I will have to do that first, and since this is not at all easy, I´ll remain ordained for the rest of my life! 

Have you realised any of the Four Noble Truths yet?

I sometimes tell people that I realise the truth of suffering. But the real thing is to realise that suffering is always around. We all have problems, but this doesn´t mean we should be unhappy. Rather, since we all want rid of it, the realisation of suffering should be an incentive to keep practicing and developing our minds. 

Do you think that your past life might have affected your choice to become a nun in this life? 

It is said that our spiritual inclinations might not just come from only this life, but a past life. My family were Christians but I developed an inclination towards Tibetan Buddhism and I´ve not felt the need to seek anything else. I have tried to investigate my past life, but I can´t be sure of what that was. The important thing for my life right now is to keep my practices and try to be aware of others, sharing love and compassion and develop my wisdom. 

Do you ever think about reincarnation as cruel?

In British culture I laugh at the expression, “This is so unfair.” My teacher says that until you realise the Four Noble Truths, you will always think “This is so unfair.” It´s up to us to develop the mind. There´s no closing it. All of us are on our way to developing our mind. Even by being here discussing it, we´re doing that.

Do you want to reincarnate to learn more?

It´s not a question of wanting to reincarnate. It will happen. In Tibetan Buddhism we talk about re-birth. I don't want to be re-born in an unfortunate state, but unless I make sure I practice virtuous states of mind, I won't have a choice. Rather I have a choice to try and continue to develop my mind.

If you were not a nun, what do you think you would be doing now?

I´m doing exactly what I want right now. I only want to be near the dharma teachings, to continue learning all my life and be with other like-minded people. 

With warmest of wishes 

Anneka

(On behalf of Lam Rim)